25 Comments
Oct 21Liked by Dr Simon Rogoff

I wonder if the worship of celebrities is a projection of the narcissist’s need to be worshipped themselves?

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Certainly something powerful and psychological is happening when millions think a man who acts and speaks like Trump is a good person to have as their leader. Its already the phenomenon of the 21st century and we’re only 25 years in.

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Oct 22Liked by Dr Simon Rogoff

The celebrity worship is likely a multi-determined phenomenon. It is such a familiar thing, perhaps like hero worship, that few people are interested in doing some reductionist analysis. Celebrity worship is likely to be benign until it becomes associated with some other pathology or tragic event. Dr. Rogoff I appreciate your response to my note and would be interested in what you may find in your further exploration.

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Hi Wayne, yes there are a couple of ways to look at that from a psychodynamic standpoint - that by worshipping we fill a need to be worshipped (by projecting), or that by worshiping we enjoy an experience of an idealised leader/parent figure, or at least ghe idea that they exist. Maybe i should do some reading about this and write a post at some point.

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Oct 21Liked by Dr Simon Rogoff

Perhaps your reply helps to explain, at least in part, celebrity worship as a cultural phenomenon and Trump’s political attractiveness to some.

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Thank you for a fascinating article.

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Thanks

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So interesting Dr. Rogoff! I can’t tell whether I love the history or the psychology more when it comes to your writing!

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Ah thanks Claire. I think thats what i enjoy about writing it! I knew vertually nothing about Bogart. I had a mental picture of his face, an idea of his voice and his persona.

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Oct 22Liked by Dr Simon Rogoff

Very interesting article and the threads were informative too. I look forward to part B. Thank you so much for this very competent analysis.

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Oct 22Liked by Dr Simon Rogoff

LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES chapter in Stalking THE SOUL.

EMOTIONAL ABUSE AND THE EROSION OF IDENTITY ......best description of "The Seizure of Power phase ,Shock, Decompensation, Separation, Evolution.

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Thanks Maura. ‘Stalking the Soul’ is the book?

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You're welcome Dr.Simon..Yes "Stalking The Soul". ...Emotional Abuse and the Erosion of Identity by Marie-France Harigoyen

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Oct 22Liked by Dr Simon Rogoff

Bogey puts in a fine display of emotional distance and condemnation of others in The Caine Mutiny

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Ok thanks. Maybe i can watch it before posting part b.

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Oct 22Liked by Dr Simon Rogoff

Maybe more paranoid than narcissistic (you must be the judge of that), but still a good movie!

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Thank you for this informative and well written piece. Unfortunately, I see nothing about Bogart's very early childhood, but, as a fellow physician/psychiatrist/addictionist/recovered alcoholic-addict, I understand the "self-numbing" lack of empathy as possibly a symptom of CPTSD. Clearly, Humphrey was a functional alcoholic, although no mention of the cause of his early demise. What early life traumatic narcissistic injury was he running from in his abuse of alcohol? He was, also, addicted to nicotine, so same question here. A cardio-pulmonary surgeon lives a life filled with stress and trauma, so Bogey's dad had to be compensating some how. Did he have other siblings? Many questions, but not so many answers. Thanks, again, for the effort.

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Oct 21·edited Oct 21Author

Hi Greeley, yes all relevant questions. But theres a part B. I’ll look into his childhood in the next post in two weeks. Maybe i didnt make that clear enough. I thought it was important first to explore the case that he was narcissistic before asking what might have primed him for that. Bogart died at 57 of cancer of the oesophagus. Sadly, by that time he seemed quite happliy married for the first time.

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Thanks for the reply and info. You might wish to peruse my essay on the Psychology of Donald Trump in the group of 20 on substack, "Greeley's Newsletter", as it is a developmental diagnostic assessment of Our Mad King Donald and explains his psychopathology to a "t". Cancer of the esophagus is a common cause of death for alcoholics. Your thoughts?

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Yes Bogart was a heavy drinker and heavy smoker. He famously said “the world is just three drinks behind…” I’ll check out the Trump essay. Im not sure what the group of 20 is but it might become clear when i find that.

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Oct 22Liked by Dr Simon Rogoff

Excellent summary... Being in a relationship with a narcissist is numbingly difficult.

Today's available resources make healing and recovery possible....

Understanding what happened is a good start......

1..Discovering the HEALTHY SELF AND MEANINGFUL RESISTANCE to TOXIC NARCISSISM by ELEANOR D.PAYSON,LMSW

2. STALKING THE SOUL by MARIE-FRANCE HIRIGOYEN

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Responding to anothe poibt you made, i recently wrote an article comparing narcissistic and borderline personality disorders with C-PTSD. It has ‘victim and perpetrator’ in the title.

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Dr. Peter Salerno in his book, Nature and Nurture in Narcissism, outlines new clinical research that demonstrates that genetics is more a prominent cause than environmental causes. This disorder is “ Trait Deficiency” & is easily detectable in early childhood. It is hardwired with Neuro imaging as evidence. Therapies used currently are not effective for several reasons. The therapy universe has been off the mark by assuming childhood traumas; clinical research isn’t exciting and listening to the problematic childhood stories can lead to confirmation bias by traditionally trained therapists. Dr. Salerno has made an incredible breakthrough for a more realistic understanding of this disorder.

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Thanks for this. I havent read the book yet. I will have to get hold of it. By ‘disorder’ is the author refering to NPD? NPD is a specific sub group of a broader narcissism concept. I think ive read in some articles about a 40% genetic element of NPD. But im highly sceptical that this is a genetics only set of personality traits. If we look at research about BPD which is related to NPD, there is a much larger amount of research, and the conclusions dont point to a genetics only disorder. I will have a look at the book. Your right, that if it were found to be a genetically caused set of traits, treatment approaches would have to be guided by this. But i would be incredibly surprised.

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Actually do you have a reference for the recent research so i can look it up?

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