Casablanca was made in 1942, at the height of the film noir genre, and yet references to the film are found often in modern culture. In La La Land (2017) Emma Stone’s character is obsessed with the film. Ocean’s Eleven (2002) quotes “Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine”. “Round up The Usual Suspects” inspired Bryan Singer’s film, The Usual Suspects (1995). Woody Alan made Play it Again, Sam (1972). Lines such as “here’s looking at you kid” and “I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship” are still in modern circulation. Also iconic, in Casablanca, was the lead character: a cool, jaded man with a raspy voice making difficult choices between head and heart and taking solace in Sam’s piano. The character’s name was Rick Blaine, played by Humphrey Bogart.
Hi Wayne, yes there are a couple of ways to look at that from a psychodynamic standpoint - that by worshipping we fill a need to be worshipped (by projecting), or that by worshiping we enjoy an experience of an idealised leader/parent figure, or at least ghe idea that they exist. Maybe i should do some reading about this and write a post at some point.
Certainly something powerful and psychological is happening when millions think a man who acts and speaks like Trump is a good person to have as their leader. Its already the phenomenon of the 21st century and we’re only 25 years in.
The celebrity worship is likely a multi-determined phenomenon. It is such a familiar thing, perhaps like hero worship, that few people are interested in doing some reductionist analysis. Celebrity worship is likely to be benign until it becomes associated with some other pathology or tragic event. Dr. Rogoff I appreciate your response to my note and would be interested in what you may find in your further exploration.
I've just found out your blog and find it fascinating. I'm a huge fan of classic Hollywood and have been studying narcissism for some time now. I was wondering if by labeling all Hollywood icons as 'narcissistic' you mean that all of them (the ones who lasted, the so called 'legends') suffer from NPD, or some of them just display important narcissistic traits, but not necessarily a disorder. People like Brando or Dietrich seem to me far more obvious than, let's say, Keanu Reeves. Thanks a lot for your time and effort.
Hi Amanda, thanks for reading. Good question! Firstly, even the DSM criteria for NPD contain references to being famous, admired and important. (I wrote an article a while back called the neighbours of narcissism setting out this terrain) But im not really focussed on the psychiatric concept of NPD. As you say, there are narcissistic traits that do not necessarily reach the threshold of disorder. And i am using the idea of narcissistic strategies, based on a psychological theory of narcissism (see the map of narcissism article). Being driven to be famous is by itself usually a narcissistic way of meeting personal needs and finding fulfillment. Taken by itself, there is nothing wrong with that, even if it is a product of difficult experiences. Ive said that there is a performance face of narcissism, a perpetrator face, and a rescuer face. I think some can have only one, some have two or three.
Ah thanks Claire. I think thats what i enjoy about writing it! I knew vertually nothing about Bogart. I had a mental picture of his face, an idea of his voice and his persona.
Thanks Ananda, yes good question. So NPD is the psychiatric (medical) way of classifying severe narcissism. Narcissism is wider than this, and i am using a more psychotherapy based idea of narcissism as a set of strategies which people use more or less, more flexibly or more compulsively. This covers a wider range of severity including NPD. There is an article about the theory or narcissism im using - including the map of narcissism here:
Thank you for this informative and well written piece. Unfortunately, I see nothing about Bogart's very early childhood, but, as a fellow physician/psychiatrist/addictionist/recovered alcoholic-addict, I understand the "self-numbing" lack of empathy as possibly a symptom of CPTSD. Clearly, Humphrey was a functional alcoholic, although no mention of the cause of his early demise. What early life traumatic narcissistic injury was he running from in his abuse of alcohol? He was, also, addicted to nicotine, so same question here. A cardio-pulmonary surgeon lives a life filled with stress and trauma, so Bogey's dad had to be compensating some how. Did he have other siblings? Many questions, but not so many answers. Thanks, again, for the effort.
Hi Greeley, yes all relevant questions. But theres a part B. I’ll look into his childhood in the next post in two weeks. Maybe i didnt make that clear enough. I thought it was important first to explore the case that he was narcissistic before asking what might have primed him for that. Bogart died at 57 of cancer of the oesophagus. Sadly, by that time he seemed quite happliy married for the first time.
Thanks for the reply and info. You might wish to peruse my essay on the Psychology of Donald Trump in the group of 20 on substack, "Greeley's Newsletter", as it is a developmental diagnostic assessment of Our Mad King Donald and explains his psychopathology to a "t". Cancer of the esophagus is a common cause of death for alcoholics. Your thoughts?
Yes Bogart was a heavy drinker and heavy smoker. He famously said “the world is just three drinks behind…” I’ll check out the Trump essay. Im not sure what the group of 20 is but it might become clear when i find that.
Responding to anothe poibt you made, i recently wrote an article comparing narcissistic and borderline personality disorders with C-PTSD. It has ‘victim and perpetrator’ in the title.
Dr. Peter Salerno in his book, Nature and Nurture in Narcissism, outlines new clinical research that demonstrates that genetics is more a prominent cause than environmental causes. This disorder is “ Trait Deficiency” & is easily detectable in early childhood. It is hardwired with Neuro imaging as evidence. Therapies used currently are not effective for several reasons. The therapy universe has been off the mark by assuming childhood traumas; clinical research isn’t exciting and listening to the problematic childhood stories can lead to confirmation bias by traditionally trained therapists. Dr. Salerno has made an incredible breakthrough for a more realistic understanding of this disorder.
Thanks for this. I havent read the book yet. I will have to get hold of it. By ‘disorder’ is the author refering to NPD? NPD is a specific sub group of a broader narcissism concept. I think ive read in some articles about a 40% genetic element of NPD. But im highly sceptical that this is a genetics only set of personality traits. If we look at research about BPD which is related to NPD, there is a much larger amount of research, and the conclusions dont point to a genetics only disorder. I will have a look at the book. Your right, that if it were found to be a genetically caused set of traits, treatment approaches would have to be guided by this. But i would be incredibly surprised.
I wonder if the worship of celebrities is a projection of the narcissist’s need to be worshipped themselves?
Hi Wayne, yes there are a couple of ways to look at that from a psychodynamic standpoint - that by worshipping we fill a need to be worshipped (by projecting), or that by worshiping we enjoy an experience of an idealised leader/parent figure, or at least ghe idea that they exist. Maybe i should do some reading about this and write a post at some point.
Perhaps your reply helps to explain, at least in part, celebrity worship as a cultural phenomenon and Trump’s political attractiveness to some.
I'd deeply appreciate such a study, Dr., the psychodynamic of the worshipper as a mean to self analysis and self awareness.
There is a very recent book ‘Fans’ by Bond. Its interesting but does not go into the psychodynamics of celebrity worship so much.
Thank you for the title, Mr. Rogoff.
Certainly something powerful and psychological is happening when millions think a man who acts and speaks like Trump is a good person to have as their leader. Its already the phenomenon of the 21st century and we’re only 25 years in.
The celebrity worship is likely a multi-determined phenomenon. It is such a familiar thing, perhaps like hero worship, that few people are interested in doing some reductionist analysis. Celebrity worship is likely to be benign until it becomes associated with some other pathology or tragic event. Dr. Rogoff I appreciate your response to my note and would be interested in what you may find in your further exploration.
Thank you for a fascinating article.
Thanks
I've just found out your blog and find it fascinating. I'm a huge fan of classic Hollywood and have been studying narcissism for some time now. I was wondering if by labeling all Hollywood icons as 'narcissistic' you mean that all of them (the ones who lasted, the so called 'legends') suffer from NPD, or some of them just display important narcissistic traits, but not necessarily a disorder. People like Brando or Dietrich seem to me far more obvious than, let's say, Keanu Reeves. Thanks a lot for your time and effort.
Hi Amanda, thanks for reading. Good question! Firstly, even the DSM criteria for NPD contain references to being famous, admired and important. (I wrote an article a while back called the neighbours of narcissism setting out this terrain) But im not really focussed on the psychiatric concept of NPD. As you say, there are narcissistic traits that do not necessarily reach the threshold of disorder. And i am using the idea of narcissistic strategies, based on a psychological theory of narcissism (see the map of narcissism article). Being driven to be famous is by itself usually a narcissistic way of meeting personal needs and finding fulfillment. Taken by itself, there is nothing wrong with that, even if it is a product of difficult experiences. Ive said that there is a performance face of narcissism, a perpetrator face, and a rescuer face. I think some can have only one, some have two or three.
Thank you for your reply, time and effort, Dr. This is very enlightening.
So interesting Dr. Rogoff! I can’t tell whether I love the history or the psychology more when it comes to your writing!
Ah thanks Claire. I think thats what i enjoy about writing it! I knew vertually nothing about Bogart. I had a mental picture of his face, an idea of his voice and his persona.
Very interesting article and the threads were informative too. I look forward to part B. Thank you so much for this very competent analysis.
LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES chapter in Stalking THE SOUL.
EMOTIONAL ABUSE AND THE EROSION OF IDENTITY ......best description of "The Seizure of Power phase ,Shock, Decompensation, Separation, Evolution.
Thanks Maura. ‘Stalking the Soul’ is the book?
You're welcome Dr.Simon..Yes "Stalking The Soul". ...Emotional Abuse and the Erosion of Identity by Marie-France Harigoyen
Bogey puts in a fine display of emotional distance and condemnation of others in The Caine Mutiny
Ok thanks. Maybe i can watch it before posting part b.
Maybe more paranoid than narcissistic (you must be the judge of that), but still a good movie!
Thanks Ananda, yes good question. So NPD is the psychiatric (medical) way of classifying severe narcissism. Narcissism is wider than this, and i am using a more psychotherapy based idea of narcissism as a set of strategies which people use more or less, more flexibly or more compulsively. This covers a wider range of severity including NPD. There is an article about the theory or narcissism im using - including the map of narcissism here:
https://open.substack.com/pub/simonrogoff/p/theory-of-narcissism-part-1?r=27zldx&utm_medium=ios
Thank you for this informative and well written piece. Unfortunately, I see nothing about Bogart's very early childhood, but, as a fellow physician/psychiatrist/addictionist/recovered alcoholic-addict, I understand the "self-numbing" lack of empathy as possibly a symptom of CPTSD. Clearly, Humphrey was a functional alcoholic, although no mention of the cause of his early demise. What early life traumatic narcissistic injury was he running from in his abuse of alcohol? He was, also, addicted to nicotine, so same question here. A cardio-pulmonary surgeon lives a life filled with stress and trauma, so Bogey's dad had to be compensating some how. Did he have other siblings? Many questions, but not so many answers. Thanks, again, for the effort.
Hi Greeley, yes all relevant questions. But theres a part B. I’ll look into his childhood in the next post in two weeks. Maybe i didnt make that clear enough. I thought it was important first to explore the case that he was narcissistic before asking what might have primed him for that. Bogart died at 57 of cancer of the oesophagus. Sadly, by that time he seemed quite happliy married for the first time.
Thanks for the reply and info. You might wish to peruse my essay on the Psychology of Donald Trump in the group of 20 on substack, "Greeley's Newsletter", as it is a developmental diagnostic assessment of Our Mad King Donald and explains his psychopathology to a "t". Cancer of the esophagus is a common cause of death for alcoholics. Your thoughts?
Yes Bogart was a heavy drinker and heavy smoker. He famously said “the world is just three drinks behind…” I’ll check out the Trump essay. Im not sure what the group of 20 is but it might become clear when i find that.
Excellent summary... Being in a relationship with a narcissist is numbingly difficult.
Today's available resources make healing and recovery possible....
Understanding what happened is a good start......
1..Discovering the HEALTHY SELF AND MEANINGFUL RESISTANCE to TOXIC NARCISSISM by ELEANOR D.PAYSON,LMSW
2. STALKING THE SOUL by MARIE-FRANCE HIRIGOYEN
Responding to anothe poibt you made, i recently wrote an article comparing narcissistic and borderline personality disorders with C-PTSD. It has ‘victim and perpetrator’ in the title.
Dr. Peter Salerno in his book, Nature and Nurture in Narcissism, outlines new clinical research that demonstrates that genetics is more a prominent cause than environmental causes. This disorder is “ Trait Deficiency” & is easily detectable in early childhood. It is hardwired with Neuro imaging as evidence. Therapies used currently are not effective for several reasons. The therapy universe has been off the mark by assuming childhood traumas; clinical research isn’t exciting and listening to the problematic childhood stories can lead to confirmation bias by traditionally trained therapists. Dr. Salerno has made an incredible breakthrough for a more realistic understanding of this disorder.
Thanks for this. I havent read the book yet. I will have to get hold of it. By ‘disorder’ is the author refering to NPD? NPD is a specific sub group of a broader narcissism concept. I think ive read in some articles about a 40% genetic element of NPD. But im highly sceptical that this is a genetics only set of personality traits. If we look at research about BPD which is related to NPD, there is a much larger amount of research, and the conclusions dont point to a genetics only disorder. I will have a look at the book. Your right, that if it were found to be a genetically caused set of traits, treatment approaches would have to be guided by this. But i would be incredibly surprised.
Actually do you have a reference for the recent research so i can look it up?