The whole idea of good character had so many problems. It meant white, it meant heterosexual, it meant east coast, it meant conservative, it meant liberal, it meant third generation immigrant but not second. It was so corrupted. It was so hijacked. It had to go. The idea of ‘poor character’ had become a vehicle of prejudice.
I would like to take this thought further and claim that in this day and age, it is the narcissistic personality disorder people who become successful and regular people are shamed to believe that they are less than. This shaming could lead to career loss and cancellation of sensitive people who are in turn diagnosed as mentally ill. Meaning they can’t fit in this world. The options are then to lose your careers and be told that we are good for nothing and need to isolate ourselves or become better individuals so as to better fit in this society. For instance people who survive a sexual abuse or workplace sexual harassment are then sidelined and live their lives as losers and don’t get an opportunity to ever enhance their self esteem. They can no longer face this world and even fall in their own eyes and can go down a spiral and have no way to prove themselves as they have been cancelled. How will such people find a platform to prove themselves. I am one such person who lost her career to extreme patriarchy and authoritarianism in the scientific community in India. I still have not recovered my self esteem fully even though I received a green card as an extraordinary scientist. I still don’t have a job and was considered a failure and poor by my family members. What would you say to such people Dr. Rogoff?
Thanks for your comment Bhavana. Im sorry to hear that you do not feel valued even by your family. And you have become an exraordinary scientist but still struggle to find work. This is also a shame. I dont think a reply on here will do justice to what you need, which may be found in a relationship with a coach or therapist. It can be very difficult to recover from such experiences in isolation. Have you also come across Nathalie Martineck here on substack? She writes alot about work based power dynamics and patriarchy and is very good.
Thanks Dr. Rogoff, I understand now that my trauma is deep and I have been diagnosed with complex PTSD. I do have a therapist and a group support from PTSD support group and participate in art therapy and DBT workshop and also recently participated in Written Exposure therapy. I will follow the person you recommended.
As a coach and MSc student in Psychology, I truly appreciate your incisive analysis, Dr Rogoff. What springs to mind here is the fact that many 'hard-core' narcissists, due to the societal reward factors you often mention, plus the nature of their disorder, never end up in a clinical or therapeutic setting. They get away with it, so to speak. And so, we end up in a sort of feedback loop, with capitalism enabling it. How DO we break out of this?
Thanks Jane! Yes i think youre right that there are feedback loops that keep narcissism equated with success. And when a narcissistic leader’s strategies backfire or are punished, it is not presented like this. It is more presented as success getting to them or something similar. Narcissistic strategies do eventually backfire, but the public narrative doesnt really recognise it. We also have a view of what success is that has moved towards money, power and fame. On their own, these things can leave people suicidal (or reliant on ketamine etc), so something is not quite right with that idea.
I would like to take this thought further and claim that in this day and age, it is the narcissistic personality disorder people who become successful and regular people are shamed to believe that they are less than. This shaming could lead to career loss and cancellation of sensitive people who are in turn diagnosed as mentally ill. Meaning they can’t fit in this world. The options are then to lose your careers and be told that we are good for nothing and need to isolate ourselves or become better individuals so as to better fit in this society. For instance people who survive a sexual abuse or workplace sexual harassment are then sidelined and live their lives as losers and don’t get an opportunity to ever enhance their self esteem. They can no longer face this world and even fall in their own eyes and can go down a spiral and have no way to prove themselves as they have been cancelled. How will such people find a platform to prove themselves. I am one such person who lost her career to extreme patriarchy and authoritarianism in the scientific community in India. I still have not recovered my self esteem fully even though I received a green card as an extraordinary scientist. I still don’t have a job and was considered a failure and poor by my family members. What would you say to such people Dr. Rogoff?
Thanks for your comment Bhavana. Im sorry to hear that you do not feel valued even by your family. And you have become an exraordinary scientist but still struggle to find work. This is also a shame. I dont think a reply on here will do justice to what you need, which may be found in a relationship with a coach or therapist. It can be very difficult to recover from such experiences in isolation. Have you also come across Nathalie Martineck here on substack? She writes alot about work based power dynamics and patriarchy and is very good.
Thanks Dr. Rogoff, I understand now that my trauma is deep and I have been diagnosed with complex PTSD. I do have a therapist and a group support from PTSD support group and participate in art therapy and DBT workshop and also recently participated in Written Exposure therapy. I will follow the person you recommended.
Bhavana
That sounds good. It sounds like you are taking your needs seriously.
As a coach and MSc student in Psychology, I truly appreciate your incisive analysis, Dr Rogoff. What springs to mind here is the fact that many 'hard-core' narcissists, due to the societal reward factors you often mention, plus the nature of their disorder, never end up in a clinical or therapeutic setting. They get away with it, so to speak. And so, we end up in a sort of feedback loop, with capitalism enabling it. How DO we break out of this?
Thanks Jane! Yes i think youre right that there are feedback loops that keep narcissism equated with success. And when a narcissistic leader’s strategies backfire or are punished, it is not presented like this. It is more presented as success getting to them or something similar. Narcissistic strategies do eventually backfire, but the public narrative doesnt really recognise it. We also have a view of what success is that has moved towards money, power and fame. On their own, these things can leave people suicidal (or reliant on ketamine etc), so something is not quite right with that idea.